From Pancakes to PPC: meet Saskia Woodhouse
Saskia is making waves at Kinase with her expertise, dedication and sense of fun. Chris Dillabough caught up with her to find out more
Saskia is an iconoclastic figure at Kinase, and as such, this interview is different to the previous ones we’ve conducted with senior Kinasers. What follows is more of a conversation - from training in PPC during the Covid pandemic, to AI and the best ways to enjoy summer times.
Born in Scotland, then growing up in Spain and Kent, then Spain again and then Scotland, Saskia went to university in Leeds. She moved to London along with all her friends, with a core circle of five best friends since the age of fourteen. Saskia joined Kinase in 2021 after university and became a rising star - working on retail clients and becoming one of our top Senior Account Managers.
Chris Dillabough: This is the sixth profile I’ve done for the Kinase blog and Saskia asked me to think of some new questions because I’ve been asking everyone the same sort of questions. This is the kind of thing Saskia says. She is usually right too. So… Introducing our most recently-promoted Senior Account Manager. Saskia has been at Kinase for four and a half years and started during the pandemic, which was a very strange time which, even more strangely, seems like it happened in a different universe. How was it?
Saskia Woodhouse: I was going to have a year out after uni to go traveling… but plans changed when the pandemic hit, so I ended up working in a pancake house for six months. Kinase was my first big job and of course, all the onboarding was remote. I was part of a huge group of trainees, and we didn’t meet in person for ages. I remember us all coming to the office for the first time; it was so surreal after being in lockdown and barely socialising. We were at a WeWork, and I remember we couldn’t believe that they had free beer taps!
CD: Ah, the WeWork free beer! How could we forget? Everyone was very glad to get back to the office - at least some of the time. I can imagine it was difficult going through training remotely. I was delivering a lot of the training and honestly it wasn’t much fun. I would talk for 15 minutes and then I would think “is anyone still there?” and I would stop and ask “any questions” and then no-one would say anything.
SW: Yes I think people were a bit scared to ask questions - partly because it was remote, but also because it was such a big group. Also, there was that time when I asked you a question - and you just ignored me and carried on talking!
CD. But I didn’t hear you, honestly! I was desperate for questions to make it more interactive. But maybe actually having Covid for about six months affected my hearing. Anyway it shows the value of doing all PPC training in person - which I still insist upon. I can see if people are taking it in or not. People are less scared of asking questions… and smaller groups makes it easier.
SW: Yes, I definitely find training in person is more effective and enjoyable! Another thing that was quite disorientating when I started was that it happened so quickly - I started two days after my final interview, and within two weeks had found a flat in London and moved over from Scotland. I remember being overwhelmed because I didn’t know which part of London to move to, but luckily I had the help from a couple of people at Kinase. Before I interviewed for the role, I’d been messaging some of them on LinkedIn to find out about the culture, and once I got the job, they were quick to help me with my search. It turned out that one of the people, Matt, was living opposite the flat my boyfriend and I ended up choosing. He even picked up the keys for us! That’s Kinase people for you: kind.
“That’s Kinase people for you: kind.”
CD: Such a nice story! The people you work with can make such a difference. But let’s turn to actual work. Since we are praising Kinase, what is the best USP we have as a company?
SW: Having exposure to a lot of different clients - and how well we share ideas across teams. You can learn from what other people have tried and tested, which cuts out the risk when you test new things. When I started the job, we all felt like we were in it together, and support from my team was amazing. We had a great team and lovely clients. Set up for success really. We have mid-size clients where it’s easier to take more responsibility early: to get on calls, to lead on strategy. Of course to begin with it was scary, but it really helped to have a manager who always encouraged me.
CD. There’s definitely a thing where culture and customs are built within teams and persist there - something rather than in the wider agency. I think this is inevitable and a good thing and it’s a strength of an agency that doesn’t impose a one-size-fits all. Good habits get passed on don’t they?
SW: Agreed - I really enjoyed when I became a manager to Shabnam as I realised how much I had learnt and how much I had to pass on. It’s been really satisfying to watch her develop and pass on her knowledge to our newest member of the team Lucy. We recently had a QBR and I thought about Lucy: I can’t believe how much you know already!
CD: Having a range of skills in a team is also a good thing. One of your strengths right from the beginning, I think, was focus and attention to detail. How do you do it? Any tips for someone like me whose attention is prone to… wander?
SW: I’d say finding what works for you is what’s most important - for example, I personally like to keep things moving and not get bogged down in unnecessary documentation. It’s great to have processes in place, but it’s also important to know that it’s not always one-size-fits all, and just because something’s always been done a certain way, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a better approach for you. As you said, having a range of different skills within a team is important, I love when new people join because it brings a fresh perspective and helps us evolve.
CD: What are some of the more difficult sides of the job?
SW: Of course, it’s difficult when performance is down because the whole sector is down maybe. Then the client asks difficult questions. Asks you to prove that there’s nothing broken in the account. That can be hard.
CD: Always, but that’s why it’s so important to always be pushing forward with the client in the good times - so that when things get tough, as they usually do at some point, there’s trust there. In our ideas for trying new things to turn it around. Of course, as you get promoted, more of it is on you.
SW: Agreed, I’m still working on some of the same clients I was four plus years ago, so I feel lucky to have been able to build up that trust over time. Also, more of it’s on you when you get promoted, but things also get easier as you move up. You just know more - you get to pass down the routine things and focus more on the strategic things. Having trust with clients is one thing, but trusting team members is equally important when you need to delegate. I love that I’ve watched Shabnam grow from trainee to Account manager over the last three years, and become an expert in areas where I’m not!
CD: We can’t not talk about AI - at least for a while. How has it changed the job and what do you think is coming next?
SW: I do love Gemini as a tool. It cuts down so much time - for example, when you have detailed notes and you want to summarise them, or put them into a different format, like a slide or a table. It’s also fun for experimenting with ad copy - even if it’s rubbish and you aren’t going to use it, I feel like it’s important to know what everyone else has access to and might be using.
“It’s not about unthinkingly applying the latest tools just because Google or Meta have released them. We take them, test them, tweak them, find the best ways of using them”
CD: But then the obvious question, sorry: Are you worried that our roles are at risk?
SW: Yes, of course. I can think of fairly complex tasks that I do now that are above the level of routine that I think it will be able to do in the future. But then I think: if you are someone who uses AI regularly then maybe you are at less risk. You know what prompts to use to get the results. And then there’s the sense check on the results.
CD: Which at the moment AI is not very good at doing. One of the things a lot of people in the agency are excited about is the use of AI for creative - specifically, automatically-created images and videos. In the past it was all about text ads but now we have images under our control, in Performance Max campaigns, Demand Gen campaigns, as well as in performance-based Social. How do you think we can add value here?
SW: It depends on the client, some clients wouldn’t be comfortable with us adjusting their creatives at all because of brand concerns. You can’t blame them because in the past Google’s auto-generated videos have been atrocious, but things have evolved quickly since then. We’ve recently been experimenting with VEO 2 & 3, and it’s insane what they can produce. It’s definitely disrupting the industry because now anyone with an idea can create a video - I’m excited to continue experimenting with it. Beyond bringing an idea to life, AI tools can help us create variations of existing creatives, which is important for testing, and I think will be something that is adopted more widely, because it’s less of a risk for brands.
CD: Yes it’s quite impressive and it turns the spotlight again on the age-old question of “does this automation mean that the client can do it themselves and they don’t need an agency.” We’re coming to the view, that it’s not different from any other agency service. Just because the client can do it, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they should. Plus, we’re best-placed to test variations in real time, with different audiences say, and feed that back into the campaign settings.
SW: Yes, there’s also the argument that if everyone is using the same automation and AI then how do they gain a competitive advantage?
CD: I like that one. It focuses on what good performance agencies actually do. It’s not about unthinkingly applying the latest tools just because Google or Meta have released them. We take them, test them, tweak them, find the best ways of using them… maybe that’s prompt engineering … with a focus on getting the client ahead of their competitors. Anyway, enough about AI. Let’s finish off with: what do you do outside work?
“Summer is in my DNA.”
SW: I love a pub! My ideal pub is simple: it has a beer garden in the sun. I love the Sunseekr app - it shows you all the pubs in London and you can see which have gardens and get the sun. I also love holidays - my favourite place to visit is South East Asia. I went to Sri Lanka in March which was amazing! I also went to the Philippines last March - I love a holiday at that time of the year because the thought of it keeps me going through winter. I absolutely hate winter, I can’t stand the cold so I hibernate. Summer is in my DNA.
CD: True … I don’t really like the summer myself. Too hot. I like the cold, mountains, frost, fires. All that. But that’s just me. Anyway, my final question. If we went back to a time before the internet, so this job didn’t exist, what would you be doing?
SW: If it were the 19th century rather than the 21st I would probably be sewing. I got a sewing machine last year, and have been making my friends scrunchies and bags ever since. I find it relaxing after looking at a screen all day at work. It’s definitely helped ease the winter blues, as I feel like I’m doing something other than watching TV. Also, it’s something that AI can’t do!